thanks to all you fellas who responded.I've got 30 yrs experience in nearly all aspects of residential construction, remodel, and rehab (always been pretty much a one-man operation), but I never quit learning.And I love the serendipity aspect of this site. I'm in CA, so cold climate matters have a touch of foreign intrigue for me, and right or wrong, I've always had a bit of resistance to high-tech. I still find plenty of situations that call for "the way they used to do it". Anyway, carry on, gentlemen. Thanks again.