Vin Man, I don't know about abrat being an DoItYourself representative, he's apparently not willing to leave his e-mail when posting so nobody but him would know. As for the rest of us (i.e., Jay J, Jim ATS, bc, etc.) we are just regular (?) folks that for some weird reason like to try to help people out. Unless they're hiding it, no one is actually associated *** **** or this website, although I've wondered about Jay J maybe being a distant relative of Bob's (LOL).